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Katie: Hiya, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama” podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s Wellnesse with an E on the tip. And this episode is extremely necessary for any of us who breathe air, eat meals, or drink water. And it’s as a result of we delve into a number of the actual risks of a number of the local weather change issues that we’re having and what the actual roots are. And the underside line is, it’s not the story that you simply’re listening to from most shops.

I’m right here with John Roulac, who I knew because the founding father of Nutiva. He’s additionally the manager producer of a documentary known as “Kiss the Floor” that’s accessible on Netflix, however he’s a serial entrepreneur, a hemp innovator, and a author and champion of regenerative agriculture. He has been on this journey of regenerative agriculture and environmentalism for about 40 years, and he brings some much-needed factors to this dialog. He’s based six nonprofits, together with Nice Plains Regeneration and gmoinside.org. I hyperlink to these within the present notes.

However we go deep on this episode concerning the lacking items within the local weather change equation, why a number of the narratives about plant-based agriculture being higher are literally not simply unsuitable, however dangerous, how lots of our present practices are damaging our rivers and our ocean in a large manner that would result in an finish of all ocean life inside a number of many years, the rationale our rivers are brown when they need to be blue, why we’re seeing so many bugs die at such a speedy price, and what the answer is. Actually fascinating episode. We go deep on lots of subjects. I feel it’s actually necessary to listen to. A quote that actually stood out to me from the episode, “On the present trajectory in just some many years, there received’t be a lot left alive in our oceans because the phytoplankton dies, all due to how we develop our meals.” So, undoubtedly tune in, concentrate, and hear on the finish for a number of steps you’ll be able to soak up your on a regular basis life that may assist reverse a few of these issues. However with out additional ado, let’s be part of John. John, welcome to the podcast.

John: Nice to be right here, Katie. Thanks for inviting me.

Katie: I’m excited to talk with you as a result of I’ve identified you for a very long time because the founding father of Nutiva however you could have additionally been doing lots of work in one other space that I feel is so necessary proper now. And that’s within the space of regenerative agriculture. And also you have been the manager producer of the documentary, a extremely phenomenal documentary known as “Kiss the Floor.” So, we’ve got lots of instructions we’re gonna go beneath the umbrella of regenerative agriculture and we’re gonna bust some myths. However first, discuss to us about “Kiss the Floor” and what was the impetus for that documentary?

John: Yeah, effectively, thanks. Soil well being is such an necessary subject. And about seven years in the past, I used to be really in Missouri, and one in all my longtime pal and a mentor, Will Alan, gave a chat. He’s an natural farmer in Vermont. He gave a discuss agriculture and its function in local weather change and the way dangerous you already know, artificial fertilizers are to the local weather. And I used to be like, “Wow. Yeah, I’m a longtime advocate of natural meals and higher farming, however I had no concept that agriculture had such a significant impression on local weather change and the way soil well being was an incredible answer to addressing local weather chaos. And that actually, sort of, opened my eyes as much as the potential of regenerative agriculture. After which I observed that nearly nobody was speaking about that within the natural farming motion. Nobody was speaking on the pure merchandise business, meals firms, despite the fact that local weather change again then was a significant challenge. So, I stated, “Nicely, why don’t we make a film and educate thousands and thousands?” After which I met the filmmakers and, after all, I had identified the oldsters from Kiss the Floor, Ryland, Finian, and their staff. And the remainder is historical past as they are saying.

Katie: I feel it is a actually necessary level as a result of I feel there’s been lots of info, particularly in lots of mainstream sources about climate-related issues. And lots of them appear to concentrate on livestock and cows particularly and largely ignore lots of different kinds of actually probably larger issues in my thoughts. The place we used to stay in Kentucky, we really backed on to an enormous farming space. And I noticed firsthand the quantity of chemical compounds that have been sprayed on these corn and wheat and soybean crops on a regular basis, after which probably all the issues ensuing from that with water runoff and issues like that. However I really feel like a lot of the dialogue has simply centered on cows and methane. However you do such an incredible job of actually delving into how rather more widespread this downside is and the way we’d really, sort of, be slicing off our nostril to spite our face with a few of these measures. So, stroll us by a few of these different huge issues that we’re seeing in relation to agriculture and the setting.

John: Sure. One of many issues is it may be a bit of sophisticated and it’s nuanced. And, so generally individuals need easy, you already know, test a field, they received it performed. For too lengthy, the environmental motion and the local weather motion and the local weather scientists have primarily…the message for the final 25 years is coal and oil is dangerous, photo voltaic and wind and electrical vehicles is sweet, full cease. And we’ve been doing that, following that mantra. And yearly, carbon dioxide will increase. Yearly, there’s extra intense rain occasions, storms. And, you already know, we’re not essentially attending to an incredible answer. And now within the final 5 years, they’ve determined to make it much more easy, you already know, when it comes to addressing the meals they usually go, you already know, “Cows are dangerous. Crops are good. Plant-based is sweet.” And sort of oversimplificatio. And a part of what’s driving this, each the concentrate on photo voltaic and wind or cows are dangerous, you already know, Not possible Burger is sweet is it may be monetized and folks could make a revenue in Wall Road, whereas the movie “Kiss the Floor” goes into, actually the answer is restoring nature is to imitate nature. And meaning we have to change our meals system. And it’s not so neat and tidy and put right into a field.

Additionally, there was a movie known as “Cowspiracy” that was performed about 10 years in the past, that’s principally 8, 10 years in the past, is, you already know, half of the film that claims that industrial raised, you already know, confined animal feedlot for agriculture is an actual downside and it’s horrible for the setting. They received that proper. However the different half, they received unsuitable and put lots of misinformation. And the concept we might be rising soybeans in Brazil, you already know, spraying all types of poisonous chemical compounds, ship these as much as the USA, then crush them and course of them utilizing hexane, a byproduct of gasoline, which has important environmental impacts, not just for employee well being however for the setting, then take that meal after which ship that round, and a few of this now’s being performed in China, the identical course of, and switch it into soy protein isolate, after which ship that again to the USA to a producing facility, you already know, by truck, after which trucking then to a distributor, after which a distributor, you already know, to a retailer. And that’s gonna be higher for the setting?

Whereas for individuals who desire a high-quality protein, what I wish to joke, what I put in that article was this, you already know, true plant…you already know, that’s actually a chemical base. Just like the Not possible Burger and these faux meals are actually chemical-based as a result of they’re utilizing numerous chemical compounds, whereas the 100% pasture beef performed in a holistic grazing, and we’ll get right into a minute what holistic grazing is, however that’s actually plant-based as a result of the cows are actually simply changing…They’re working on the vitality of the solar, driving photosynthesis in grasses, the animals eat the grass, which weren’t in a position to digest as effectively, after which we devour the meat. So, that’s a way more pure and extra regenerative course of. However what you learn in “The Guardian,” or in “Bloomberg,” or “New York Instances,” and so forth. is that cows are dangerous and that we must always convert to plant-based and that’s the long run. It’s a misnomer for positive.

Katie: Yeah, there’s undoubtedly a push for that proper now. And to your level, I feel it ignores a few of these actually huge points, that are issues like these industrial fertilizers and the way they’re affecting all the things all the way down to our water provide. And from what I’ve learn in articles that you simply’ve written, there’s a really direct impression of those affecting our rivers and in addition the ocean in several methods. So are you able to stroll us by what we’re seeing in our water?

John: Yeah. So, I wrote an article just lately known as “Make America’s Rivers Blue Once more,” as a result of earlier than agriculture…and actually the water, really the colour isn’t blue, nevertheless it’s a mirrored image of the sky. However most rivers right now in America have a brown or greenish or yellowish hue. They’re discolored due to erosion and from chemical fertilizers and pesticides working off. And so, you already know, whether or not it’s a creek, or a stream, or a river, or an ocean, it’s an actual challenge. And the invention of this course of, which we discuss within the movie, “Kiss The Floor,” the invention of chemical fertilizer, it’s taking fracked pure fuel, which has huge methane releases. There’s far more methane launched within the manufacture of artificial fertilizers and fracking, however you’ll by no means learn that in any article.

One factor that’s sort of like the most important conspiracy within the meals world right now, each article that’s concerning the setting and meals nearly by no means discusses the discharge of nitric oxide from artificial fertilizer crops. It’s the fastest-growing greenhouse fuel emissions on the earth nevertheless it’s by no means talked about. You understand, as a result of the factor to grasp, a part of it’s, there’s a lot cash within the meals business. It’s larger than the web. It’s larger than Google and Fb mixed. And it’s as a result of everybody has to eat. And as meals costs rise and, you already know, we’ve got all this sort of extra trendy, you already know, sort of lots of junk meals and overly processed meals, there’s some huge cash to be made. And so, it’s very handy, simply to modify over and, you already know, blame the cows so then they will primarily repackage industrial, you already know, GMO agriculture.

However going again to the waterways, so once they use the artificial fertilizer, it’s injected within the floor, a number of the crops soak up that nitrogen. And we’ll discuss how regenerative agriculture creates nitrogen and fertility. However then when there’s a rainstorm, and clearly, you already know, in farm areas that you simply’re gonna see rain, you already know, you should have rain except it’s irrigated, however lots of occasions, it’s rainfall, then that fertilizer washes from the sector into a bit of creek, which then rushes into an even bigger stream right into a river after which leads to the ocean. And we’ve got a 500-square-mile useless zone within the Gulf of Mexico. And so, the primary contributor to ocean air pollution right now is just not solely plastics, nevertheless it’s additionally agricultural runoff from business. And it’s killing fish. There’s simply an article about…what’s these actually pretty mammals which can be proper across the Florida waterways? Manatee. And manatees are being poisoned from artificial pesticides like Roundup from Monsanto. In order that’s a bit of concerning the waterways, and in addition into our wells. So, you already know, if we wanna handle our waters and have wholesome, you already know, ingesting water, wholesome rainwater, we have to have wholesome soil. And that begins with regenerative agriculture and shifting away from industrial agricultural chemical compounds.

And to circle again on how does regenerative agriculture differ when it comes to the standard agriculture, chemical agriculture, is we develop crops in rotation with different crops, reminiscent of like alfalfa or clover to repair nitrogen from the ambiance, put it again into the bottom, into the soil, and in addition combine livestock. So, like Gabe Brown, who’s one of many stars within the movie of “Kiss the Floor” is a rancher in North Dakota likes to say, he’ll like develop a winter cowl crop, he’ll plant completely different crops reminiscent of like radishes, after which he’ll carry cows in. The cows will eat that grass. Like, they’ll eat a few of these crops. After which they’ll poo they usually’ll pee, they usually’ll rework and create organic exercise within the soil. So as a substitute of utilizing fertilizer from chemical compounds, they’re simply utilizing from the cows that pure course of. It’s extra economical. So the farmer makes more cash and it’s extra ecological.

Katie: Yeah, that’s an necessary level that when you think about the entire ecosystem, the livestock can actually be an enormous a part of the answer and aren’t essentially the issue in any respect. I feel we will all agree that CAFO farms should not the reply. I feel that’s really one space the place, sort of, the entire well being camps would appear to agree. I don’t know anybody who’s an outspoken advocate of feedlot and CAFO farms.

However to circle again to a degree you made additionally concerning the waterways. So, I stay near one in all these useless zones within the ocean. And I questioned if that would really be a cause for a number of the, like, completely different purple bloom, I feel they name it, all these various things that have an effect on the air high quality and the water high quality at completely different occasions of the 12 months. However I do know individuals who don’t stay close to the ocean, it’s straightforward to sort of not have these issues be high of thoughts and never take into consideration how huge of a deal they’re. However I wanna go a bit of bit deeper on this concept that the ocean can be our largest supply of oxygen. And phytoplankton are vital actually for survival of all the things on this planet. So, discuss that a bit of bit extra as a result of as we kill off the well being of our ocean and of our waterways, it’s not affecting simply the water. It, in a really possible way, threatens just about each life on the planet, proper?

John: Yeah. I imply, the primary underrated environmental challenge on the planet right now is the ocean acidification and the dying off of our plankton. And the rationale why plankton exterior of the nitrogen runoff is the legacy load of carbon, it’s within the ambiance that’s been from tilling the soil, burning fossil fuels, you already know, clearing forests, clearing wetlands during the last, you already know, 1,000, 2,000 years, that legacy load is within the ambiance. And over time, that carbon drops down and the place do you suppose it falls into? Into the ocean. In order that carbon falls into the ocean. And plankton, what we name acidification within the ocean has elevated by 30% within the final 50 years. And so the plankton is slowly beginning to die off, and when scientists take ocean water they usually improve it, like improve the share of carbon within the water to what we undertaking by 2040, the entire plankton simply dissolves. So, they want that stability of…identical to our abdomen wants a specific sort of stability, like our PH. You understand, there’s this factor that in nature, there’s a stability. If you happen to get manner an excessive amount of rain or an excessive amount of drought, you already know, is gonna trigger a difficulty.

And so, we’re probably not paying consideration. So. on the present price of how humanity, we live on this planet, by 2040, there received’t be a fish, a dolphin, or a whale residing within the ocean. After which it goes even additional, when it comes to agriculture, presently, 70% of all winged bugs, I’m speaking about bees, butterflies, bumblebees, you already know, different winged bugs, we’ve misplaced 75% since 1980s as a result of primarily of business agriculture spraying chemical compounds. And we’re shedding 1% to 2% a 12 months, in line with the Nationwide Geographic. At our present price by 2035, there might not be any bugs, you already know, to talk of, which implies that there’s no meals for the birds and there’s to not pollinate our crops.

So we’re in a really powerful state of affairs. I’ve been an environmentalist since I used to be 21 once they dumped nuclear waste close to my…9 miles from my home. And that actually upset me, and that was 40 years in the past. And I’ve been yelling and screaming. I strive now to be a bit of extra entertaining when I attempt to discuss to individuals to, like, “Hey, possibly we shouldn’t destroy this planet. You understand, we don’t have a plan B. Our plan A is to handle this planet.” And, you already know, the concept suppose that we’re gonna spend, you already know, the folly of individuals like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk to spend billions of {dollars} to attempt to colonize Mars, when each of these males don’t appear to even perceive how soil works, or Invoice Gates for that matter, you already know, which needs to maneuver us all to artificial beef. And, you already know, when somebody asks and I stated, “Nicely, you already know, what about these lots of of hundreds of acres of ag land you could have that…you already know, how’s that associated?” “Nicely, that’s not associated to my local weather. That’s simply my funding advisors did that.”

Katie: Wow.

John: So, we’ve got a, you already know…And Katie, sort of, you already know, as an outdated white man, I can sort of say this, however the issues that we face right now, lots of occasions, it’s outdated white males which can be targeted on cash and which were introduced up in a system that’s compartment…you already know, tries to place all the things in a compartment, you already know, like, Gates is like, “Oh, I’ve like $5 billion I spend on local weather stuff on my investing in local weather, after which all all the things else, my investments in Monsanto and farmland, we’re spraying Monsanto and, you already know, I’m gonna purchase a jet system,” you already know, all these different issues are in some way separate. As a result of his thoughts, effectively, he’s received a lot cash that he’s placing on this. And that’s that mindset. We stay in a holistic system. And, you already know, indigenous individuals perceive that. And us on this trendy world, we both want to grasp and honor nature extra and restore nature. And nature could be very resilient.

So we’ve got the potential to revive nature, regenerate nature, that’s what regenerative tradition speaks of. And we will do this and have it create a extra dynamic future or we will proceed on this path and have a really bleak future. You understand, I strive to not sweet coat issues. Issues are in a really powerful state of affairs. Issues are manner worse than the scientists and politicians are letting individuals know. We’re gonna begin seeing extra storms. We’re gonna see extra droughts, you already know, extra of those sorts of climate occasions till we begin to, you already know, rethink of how we’re residing. It’s attention-grabbing that I’ve discovered one thing known as the small water cycle that by merely re-greening and reforesting lands, and bettering the grasslands, and bettering agricultural lands, conserving it all the time lined, we will really impression climate.

We will really create extra rain in areas which can be dry by restoring nature. And that’s one thing that increasingly more persons are beginning to study that lots of environmentalists didn’t even know. I actually didn’t perceive that idea till 10 years in the past. I imply, I knew the concept of rain forests, really, the forests really launch, like, isotopes and different issues that join with the cloud system, you already know, and have shaped rain clouds in areas. So you already know, it’s a captivating topic. And the extra we will study and respect nature, the higher we’re gonna be.

Katie: Yeah, completely. My son could be very into lots of these points as effectively. He’s 14. And he was on my podcast when he launched a cookbook, and I requested him a query associated to the setting, and principally how we needs to be making an attempt to repair this stuff. And he made a very good level, he’s like, “Mother, you’re asking the unsuitable query. On the finish of the day, nature is gonna win. We have to repair this in order that we will live on in it. However on the finish of the day, it’s an organism that’s gonna reset itself.”

And also you talked about the bugs, which I feel are a extremely necessary level as effectively, in all probability simply as near as necessary because the oceans and the water provide. And in your article, you quoted a physician who stated that, “This isn’t only a bee downside. The bees are the canary within the coal mine. That is the worst mass extinction occasion the planet has ever skilled. Agriculture has grow to be a lot too simplified.” And doubtless lots of people listening have heard a few of these statistics concerning the bee inhabitants declining. However I don’t suppose many individuals understand, once more, identical to the water challenge, simply how this actually impacts all life on the planet. And I do know this additionally hyperlinks into the concept of GMOs. And we’ve got huge voices in society saying GMOs are the reply and it’s the one manner we will feed everybody on Earth, and really promotional of GMO practices. Are you able to, sort of, tackle that challenge as effectively and discuss all these genetically modified crops and the way that’s led to extra pesticide and fertilizer use?

John: Yeah. I feel one factor…Nicely, I wanna return to a narrative about once I was a youthful man, possibly in my 30s, I went to a pure meals present. You may need heard that the Expo West. And, you already know, again then there was, you already know, 8,000 individuals would go, you already know, once they had the final time they’d it earlier than COVID and it was like 85,000. And there was a farmer, his identify was Dick Tougher. He was, like, a extremely huge man like 6’8″, this big of a person. And he was a rice farmer. And he was an ecological farmer. And he was one of many few farmers that, you already know, actually sort of didn’t wanna use chemical compounds again within the ’60s, you already know. And he says, “John, after World Warfare…” I keep in mind him telling the story identical to it was yesterday. He stated, “After World Warfare II, what did America and England have lots of?” That they had aircraft factories and bomb factories. And, you already know, they’d the planes for the battle, they usually had the bombs to drop the bombs on the individuals. And primarily, after World Warfare II, they determined, “Okay, what are we gonna do to get the financial system going?” They determined to create a brand new battle. And guess what that battle was in opposition to?

Katie: I don’t know.

John: Nature. So, they declared battle on nature and the brand new enemy was bugs. And they also have been gonna drop, you already know, bombs on the bugs. They’re gonna additionally drop bombs within the soils for chemical fertilizer, you already know. You make bombs with, you already know…And, you already know, lots of these bombs that explode are created from artificial fertilizer. And so, we began that up. And now we’ve realized that a lot, you already know, devastation, and we haven’t declared a ceasefire. We have to simply declare a ceasefire in opposition to that. And the businesses that have been making the chemical compounds that they utilized in World Warfare II in Auschwitz to kill Jewish individuals, those self same firms are those which can be accountable for meals coverage on the earth right now.

Bayer is a World Warfare II German chemical battle crimes firm. They bought Monsanto. And each GMO seed that’s bought on the earth right now is dipped in an artificial pesticide known as neonic. Neonic coats the seed. It’s 5,000 occasions extra poisonous than Roundup. It expresses itself in each a part of the gene of the plant. And it’s one of many the reason why bees and butterflies are dying so quickly. So, within the morning, when the dew units on the corn crops, bees come and drink the water off of the corn. And once they drink that moisture, they’re ingesting the neonics into the bees, and over time the bees die. And that’s occurring all bugs. We don’t want that neonic. And it’s onerous to even get it. They’re even promoting it in nursery crops. So, whenever you go to the native nursery and put some flowers or no matter and crops into your yard, you’re spreading that additionally. And so they don’t let you know. It’s been banned in England, I imply, in France, in lots of circumstances. And so they’re discovering out the bees are making a rise in inhabitants.

So, that’s the best way each…The GMO begins there. And so they’re designed…Ninety-eight % of all GMOs bought on the earth right now are designed to have functions for spraying poisonous pesticides. So, when GMO crops have been launched within the ’90s, that’s when the quantity elevated of pesticides, herbicides. And so, we’ve simply gotten used to simply spraying. So you already know, as I keep in mind, one in all my pals who was a farmer, we have been driving alongside and he’s an natural farmer, he says, “See on the market, there’s not a weed within the subject. You understand, they only spray it like clockwork, you already know, two or thrice.” So, that’s the issue with GMOs. And in addition, you already know, primarily, they’re taking a gene gun they usually’re injecting a virus, you already know, into the cell. You understand, so one of many issues is the scientists who labored on the FDA, once they introduce these, they stated, “Nicely, there needs to be some research. They need to do a double-blind examine, feed individuals so many individuals GMO meals, and so many individuals not GMO meals.” They by no means did that. And so they stated, “Oh, these are considerably equal.” So there’s no distinction between GMO corn and non-GMO corn.

Then when that very same firm went to the patent workplace, when the Supreme Courtroom, they go, “That is utterly completely different. Yeah, we wanna get a patent on it.” However they stated it was equal, the identical. So, you already know, relying on which company door they walked in, they’d a special story. Nicely, the scientist stated, “If you happen to introduce GMOs to the general public, there’s a possible that we’re gonna see will increase in allergic reactions. You’re gonna see will increase in different well being points.” And, after all, we’ve seen what’s exploded…I imply, within the 1960s and ’70s, individuals didn’t have peanut allergic reactions. There wasn’t, you already know, gluten points. We’ve seen a large quantity of that. You understand, and a part of that, I consider, is just not solely the Roundup, you already know, which may additionally block absorption of minerals…You understand, Roundup, it’s the model identify for Monsanto, the glyphosate. It was really initially designed as a descaler. So that they used it in industrial cooling programs in tanks the place it could strip the minerals off the tank. So it’s principally stripping minerals from individuals’s physique. And, you already know, there’s simply lots of points.

The corruption in Washington, D.C. is so important, and they also’re in a position to get away with lots of actually dangerous, dangerous issues. However, you already know, that’s why it’s so necessary to go in the direction of extra regenerative and natural. The problem with natural although is lower than 1% of acres are grown licensed natural in the USA. A lot of the crops that make up the natural meals you purchase in shops is imported. You understand, 6% of gross sales are licensed natural in the USA And just one% of the crops are grown natural, a lot of it’s imported. And sadly, a few of it’s based mostly on fraud, you already know, the corn, the soy, quinoa, chia, you already know. So, it’s a unhappy state of affairs that we’ve allowed our meals system to be tousled and folks must take duty and study extra. And regenerative agriculture gives a pathway for individuals to do this, however individuals must study extra.

And, you already know, now’s the time to, you already know, write your senators and representatives, and let’s hope that there’s gonna be some extra optimistic change each in Washington, D.C. as a result of farmers have an interest on this. There must be extra schooling, but in addition farmers get so little. So, I’ll provide you with an instance of how little farmers are…The quantity of {dollars} that farmers get out of the meals pie is much less and fewer yearly. It’s the bottom on report. So, in 1980, farmers received Eight cents a pound for wheat. I need people who find themselves listening this, simply take a guess how a lot you suppose farmers are getting paid 41 years later for wheat per pound?

Katie: I don’t know.

John: It’s 11 cents. Now, when you’re the farmer, how a lot is their insurance coverage coverage gone up? How a lot is their diesel gas gone up? You understand, how a lot does it price them to purchase new, you already know, spark plugs or, you already know, get their automobile mounted? And, you already know, clearly, it’s gone far more than from Eight to 11. After which how a lot does it price for a loaf of bread in the USA. So, one of many issues I’ve just lately performed is I’ve researched so much about wheat within the business. And it’s so superb…One factor I simply needed to…If I might riff on that for a minute. You’ll see that so many firms promoting flour saying unbleached. And that primarily is the code phrase that you simply wanna keep away from. Everytime you see a flour, like wheat flour that claims “unbleached,” what meaning is that flour…it’s their, like, sort of a option to say, “Nicely, that is good for you.” So we don’t bleach it just like the worst ones.

However, you already know, when you look on the again of the diet panel, principally there’s no fiber. Like, why would you bake bread with no fiber? And so they principally eliminated all of the vitamin E, all of the B nutritional vitamins, all of the minerals, all of the selenium, little or no magnesium. And so, you already know, they’re whitening, they’re dietary stripping. After which one of many issues that they’re doing is that they’re including enriched…they’re “enriching” it with…they’re put in artificial nutritional vitamins. After which on mineral…after which they put iron. They really put metallic shavings in to succeed in the iron ranges within the flour business in the USA. It’s an abomination. And one of many issues that’s inflicting lots of allergic reactions for individuals is because the 1940s, they began hybridizing wheat and altering it. So, there are what they name heirloom grains, reminiscent of…

And, you already know, Katie, I’ve been ingesting out of the firehose the final six weeks, 4, 5, six weeks actually study extra about as a result of I’m working extra in Kansas and Nebraska, with farmers and ranchers to construct a regenerative motion, proper within the coronary heart of the nation within the huge Nice Plains. And, you already know, actually discovered so much. However there’s these varieties known as like turkey purple, Sonoran white, purple fife that have been introduced over, you already know, within the 1800s, you already know, when individuals got here to the USA. Matter of reality, I talked to 1 farmer, and he’s rising 30 acres of turkey purple. And it has a special protein and construction. And his great-great-grandparents who got here from Crimea within the 1890s, and earlier than they got here out, they despatched their youngsters out into the fields to place a few of these seeds, these grains of their pockets to carry over after which plant. And it has a special gluten and protein construction.

And individuals who have points round consuming wheat appear to do higher, not for individuals who, you already know, are celiac however who’ve slight challenge…you already know, some bloating or different points. So, it’s actually attention-grabbing, however this enriching of the wheat product is an actual downside. And so there’s sort of a renaissance in heirloom grains and a brand new option to develop…And rising…And I can clarify to you a bit of about how a few of these farmers are rising wheat in a different way than typical and even natural farmers.

Katie: Yeah. Let’s go a bit of bit deeper on that as a result of I do know it is a rising factor, and as I’ve discovered even just a bit bit about it’s actually, sort of, terrifying.

John: Yeah. Yeah. So, the extra I discovered about what’s going…And there’s some individuals even speaking that this enriching these artificial nutritional vitamins and minerals, and so forth., particularly the metallic form, that is additionally a significant well being challenge. And it’s nearly in all merchandise. So, like, everyone seems to be consuming…You understand, I feel 25% of the energy in America is wheat, however we might rework and, you already know, simply make wheat nice once more, you already know, if we stopped spraying all that…you already know, went off utilizing artificial chemical compounds and in addition began utilizing extra of those heirloom varieties, you already know, which they’ve about half as a lot yield, so that they price a bit of extra however they’re, you already know, significantly better for you. However the farmer I used to be telling you about that grows this heirloom selection, so earlier than he goes out and he places the wheat seed in his planning mixer, he threw in some clover and a radish combine. And so, now…So he crops the wheat. And because the wheat begins to return up additionally developing is a canopy crop, nevertheless it’s extra of, like, a companion crop.

So whereas the wheat is rising, he’s additionally conserving the bottom lined, and issues are rising and in addition fixing nitrogen. So he received a bit of higher yield. You get extra, you already know, habitat. And it’s restoring the soil and growing the biodiversity. So, we will develop a few of, you already know, these annual crops with different crops on the identical time. Nevertheless it’s humorous, I used to be speaking to about 30 farmers on a pair calls just lately, they usually have been all like, “I don’t find out about that.” You understand, some was like, “Oh, I can’t do this.” And I get off the decision and a few them are saying, “John, I’ve been doing that for like seven years. It’s not that huge a deal.” However he says, “That’s a no brainer.” However the farmers are…Simply, you already know, like, Katie, how onerous is it so that you can change some individuals’s diets, proper?

Katie: Yeah.

John: We’re simply used to it, proper? We’re creatures of behavior. You understand, it’s like, why do you hike at this one place? Nicely, I imply, there’s one other place you may hike that’s excellent down the street. Nicely, I simply sort of like this different mountain climbing path. You understand, we sort of have our little factor. So, you already know, with the regenerative agriculture, it’s about working with individuals and educating them. And that’s one of many issues I’m really with these farmers and ranchers, we’re working to create a brand new co-op. And that’s gonna be a farmer-owned co-op that’s gonna develop a few of these heirloom grains in a greater manner and really develop it, and mill it, and bundle it, and promote it. And that’s known as Farmer Eve. It’s simply an ideation part. However the concept is to attempt to assist the farmers to take part extra, as a substitute of getting much less and fewer of the meals pie as a result of a few of these farmers, they wanna commit suicide. They’re depressed.

I imply, a few of them are so tousled, they’re going like, “You imply, my great-grandfather got here right here, you already know, with a decide and an ax and a bag of salt and a shovel and a few garments, and that was it? And now I’ve this stunning farm and I’m gonna be the final…you already know, the fourth era. I’m gonna be the one which loses the farm as a result of I don’t make it economically.” You understand, there’s lots of stress on that. They really feel, I’m the F up. So, we’ve got to deal…There’s lots of psychological well being points with farmers. They’re getting older and their youngsters don’t wanna farm. You understand, so there’s some challenges on the market. Now we have to deal with that. And except the farmer will get an even bigger piece of the pie, how are we gonna get them to actually concentrate on regeneration?

And if we don’t get farmers to concentrate on regeneration, we’re not gonna have any bugs round. We’re not gonna have an ocean life. If we don’t have winged bugs, if we don’t have ocean, how do you suppose we’re gonna stay in 2040? I don’t suppose it’s gonna be…it’s not so viable. So actually, you already know, let’s regenerate, let’s use the facility of soil well being. If we get soil proper, if we’ve got wholesome soil, then we’ve got wholesome crops. If we’ve got wholesome crops, we get wholesome animals, you already know, and we’ve got a wholesome local weather, we’ve got a wholesome ocean.

Katie: Yeah, I feel one other factor that’s gotten well-liked with lots of nice advertising just lately is lots of these faux meat merchandise or I assume like plant-based meat options. I don’t suppose which you can really name them meat in any kind. However based mostly on what you’ve already stated, it looks as if these are actually simply pouring gas on the fireplace utilizing these, like, actually harsh agricultural merchandise after which making an attempt to make them appear to be meat. And I do know they’re a controversial subject proper now. However what are you discovering in relation to these, like, rising actions of faux meat?

John: It might be when you can monetize it, they may construct it. The aim is to make billions and billions and billions, and these enterprise capitalists are all placing cash, you already know, from Invoice Gates, you already know, on down. So, there’s some huge cash to be made to assist ranchers convert and to make wholesome grasslands, that’s not so worthwhile of their view. However actually, the most important space of land is grasslands. It’s not farmlands. So, you already know, in grasslands, lots of grasslands are denuded due to poor grazing. So, you already know, the present meat business isn’t regenerative and isn’t sustainable and we have to enhance it. However the concept with how this works is on the grass, the cows will are available on a regenerative system. They’ll are available they usually attempt to mimic the herds of like buffalo, the place they arrive in massive batch massive teams. And so they usher in, let’s say the grass is about knee-high, so they arrive in they usually’ll, you already know, munch it down like a few third after which they transfer them. And so they received’t come again for one more 12 months, or six months.

Now, that grass comes again up and also you begin to get extra perennial grasses and the grasses get stronger. Whereas when you depart the cows in the identical space, they only munch all of it the best way down, then the grass grows a bit of extra, it munches down, after which the basis system will get weaker. And the rationale why we wish extra complicated and numerous root programs, that’s the place the crops, they use the carbon and rework it by a course of and to sequester carbon, and switch it into, you already know, a residing root system. And the diploma that we do that’s the diploma that we’re gonna achieve success as a species and so are different species. So actually, we really want extra cows.

And as you restore the land, there’s one gentleman that’s within the Chihuahuan Desert, he’s taken the place it’s like brittle setting, you already know, four or 5 inches of rain generally, he’s elevated the quantity of herds they will run on the land by 10 occasions. And so they improve the biodiversity. They improve birds, improve the grass species and different species. Nevertheless it needs to be performed, you already know, in a extra holistic lens. And there’s increasingly more sources. And I encourage everybody to look at the movie, you already know, “Kiss the Floor.” And that’s, you already know, a very good film to do. And there’s one other ebook out, Diana Rodgers, what’s the identify of that ebook?

Katie: “Sacred Cow,” I feel.

John: “Sacred Cow.” Yeah. And when you wanna find out about that. However, you already know, I imply, I used to be a longtime vegetarian and I used to bash meat, you already know, again 30 years in the past. So my pals sort of chuckle with me now. However, you already know, we will all the time study. And that’s one factor, you already know, it’s like, do we’ve got the flexibility inside us to say, you already know, “Possibly I wasn’t proper? Possibly I must study a brand new manner.” And so, the brand new manner, the brand new go, however actually, it’s an outdated manner actually, you already know, regeneration, caring for nature, and indigenous individuals perceive that, and lots of old-time farmers. And, you already know, what’s outdated is coming again to new.

Katie: I’ve a lot respect for you in being prepared to constantly ask these questions. It’s one thing I attempt to do in addition to yearly make an inventory of issues I firmly consider to be true after which problem myself on them deliberately realizing if I’m proper, I’ve solely discovered extra. And if I’m unsuitable, it was actually necessary to problem these issues. And I feel it was Charlie Munger who stated, you already know, any 12 months that he doesn’t overturn one firmly held perception, he considers a failure. And I feel that’s a really powerful factor for many people is to be prepared to problem, particularly firmly held beliefs. So, lots of respect for you and doing that.

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And I wanna be sure we actually delve into the options as effectively. You’ve talked about carbon and the way there’s lots of misunderstanding in, sort of, that carbon equation and the way that is really an enormous a part of the rationale that cows should not solely not the issue, however are an enormous a part of the answer. And I do know you’ve performed lots of actually necessary work with Nice Plain’s Regeneration in a few of your efforts with this, however stroll us by principally, the fundamentals of that carbon equation and the way regenerative agriculture can really be the answer to all of those issues.

John: It’s so simple as we wanna take the legacy load of carbon and as a substitute of it as a waste, we wanna have a look at it as a useful resource. So what drives soil fertility is carbon. Carbon is our ally. Carbon is our pal. However, you already know, for too lengthy, we’ve heard from like Al Gore and from the environmentalists, carbon is dangerous. It’s actually a misplaced alternative. And we wanna improve, you already know, the crops. And regenerative agriculture is completed in a number of methods. One is actually, as a substitute of whenever you drive by a farmer’s subject and also you see all of it naked, we wanna cowl the soil. So, when it rains, that water is absorbed into the bottom and builds the groundwater. You understand, within the Nice Plains, Aguala Reservoir is slowly drying up as a result of a lot of the soil is uncovered. So if we cowl the soil, that’s a extremely key factor. We wanna improve biodiversity.

So, identical to we’re saying this heirloom wheat farmer, Darrin Unruh, that I’m working with in Kansas, as a substitute of simply when he grows wheat, he doesn’t solely develop wheat, he grows clover and, you already know, different crops with it. So that you wanna improve the biodiversity. So regenerative farmers received’t simply develop three crops like corn, soy, wheat, corn, soy, wheat, corn, soy wheat, they’ll develop 5, six, seven, or eight. I’m really going out to Nebraska in a few weeks and I’m gonna meet a person named David Vetter. And there’s a film known as “A Vetter World,” V-E-T-T-E-R. His father determined to grow to be an natural farmer in 1953 and gave up all of the chemical compounds. And so, they do lots of completely different stuff. And so they additionally incorporate animals. So, like, when a few of these wheat farmers once they end up rising the wheat crop they usually have a few of these different companion crops rising, they’ll carry within the cows they usually’ll munch on that, and convert that into protein, and in addition regenerate the land, you already know, by the cows’ manure and urine. And that actually…

You understand, however the artificial model is that they’d fairly simply purchase artificial fertilizers, which Wall Road makes some huge cash on. So the entire plant-based motion is basically being utilized by Wall Road and Monsanto to promote a imaginative and prescient, you already know, to a gullible American public. However, you already know, individuals such as you and I, we’re making an attempt to teach individuals, you already know, on that. After which, you already know, doing extra biodiverse, you already know, crops, not tilling the soil a lot, going to no-till, going to perennial programs. So, there’s a biodynamic farmer up in Montana. Each 200 ft, for his or her crops for his or her wheat and their grains, they’ve 20 ft for bugs and biodiversity. Different ones are rising tree crops. So that they develop timber, you already know, in several areas. And so simply, you already know, growing the biodiversity, improve the soil well being.

And in addition, regenerative agriculture is extra nutrient-dense. The extra diet we’ve got within the soil, we will grow to be extra…you already know, the meals is extra nutrient-dense. Additionally, the diet of regenerative beef is rather more so than plant-based or CAFO meat. Regenerative beef the place the cows are consuming 100%…or lamb, 100% grass, that has like 5 occasions the quantity of vitamin E, rather more Omega three and fewer Omega 6. So, you already know, once more, wholesome soil, wholesome grass, wholesome crops, wholesome animals, wholesome individuals, wholesome planet.

Katie: Yeah. And as you’ve defined, that’s such an necessary and well timed factor for us to all get on board with. How can every of us in our personal communities, in our personal households, in our personal areas contribute to those regenerative practices each in how we spend our meals {dollars} and in addition in issues we will do at our houses or in our communities?

John: Yeah, yeah, nice level. And I put six of them in that article. I wanna encourage individuals to learn that article. It’s a bit of dense, the “Make America’s Rivers Blue Once more.” One factor is compost. I encourage everybody to compost, take your meals scraps, your leaf clippings. And when you stay in an house or a rental, you’ll be able to put your meals scraps within the freezer after which, you already know, in the event that they don’t have a metropolis program, you already know, take it out whenever you exit to the nation or no matter. I do know that sounds loopy. However, like, actually, you already know, returning natural matter the soil is necessary. Get to know your farmer. If you happen to’re gonna eat meat, undoubtedly eat meat that’s regenerative. We’d like extra cows on the land, not much less, which is the precise reverse of the setting.

One factor I wanna say is since I wrote that article, each main environmental group that I known as out and the businesses, they hardly will even criticize the article. They’re afraid. Like, the CEO of Not possible Burger, they don’t even wanna get on a dialogue as a result of they know that they’re not based mostly on fact. It’s only a advertising marketing campaign. However you really want…So, know your farmer, buy higher meals high quality. You understand, go to a farmers market, eat extra native, extra natural, extra regenerative, eat a various sort of issues.

Additionally, in investing, is your 401(okay)…are you a mutual fund that has shares in Monsanto? So don’t put money into Monsanto. Contact your member of Congress as a result of proper now they’re making an attempt to debate with the brand new Biden administration, are they gonna concentrate on regenerative agriculture? We’re beginning to get some higher indicators. Are we gonna do this? I feel that’s necessary. And when you can, volunteer, you already know, assist one in all your farmers. Possibly you’ll be able to put money into an area farmer, you already know, possibly you may volunteer. You understand, proper now possibly 1 out of 10,000, 1 out of 20,000 persons are actually lively. If we might get 1 in 500 individuals actually onboard to regenerate Planet Earth, we will make an enormous change. We simply want 5 occasions as many individuals to indicate up the subsequent couple of years. And it’s greater than it was possibly 10 years in the past. So we’re making progress.

Katie: I like that recommendation about composting. I’ll undoubtedly guarantee that the article you’ve talked about is linked within the present notes, in addition to these six issues we will all do. And I’ve some posts about composting and easy methods to get began for any of you guys who’re new to that. I’ll additionally hyperlink to the documentary and to your varied efforts in addition to to the “Sacred Cow” ebook that you simply talked about and to your books. Are there another beginning locations the place you’d suggest individuals to continue to learn about these points?

John: Yeah, I encourage Kiss the Floor, the nonprofit. And there’s a 45-minute academic video for “Kiss the Floor” film for each farmers and for faculties. And that’s accessible. It’s on Netflix. So, yeah, undoubtedly share. Use your social platform to do this. For people who find themselves ranchers or farmers, they wanna study soil for local weather, there’s a very good Fb group to study extra about a few of these points. And in addition, mangroves. Restoring mangroves might be among the best issues we will do to regenerate our planet. And it restores, you already know, each mangroves and grasslands. These are two areas you really want to…Allan Savory is without doubt one of the ones that’s been researching the grasslands for the final 40 years. So, these are a number of the issues.

After which you can too comply with me on Fb or LinkedIn or Instagram, after which Nice Plains Regeneration. Now we have lots of good info at greatplainsregeneration.org. And there’s the carbon underground. There’s numerous completely different teams which can be doing good things. And ask your meals firm, say, “What are you doing about regeneration?” Even Basic Mills has made a dedication to make use of regenerative agriculture practices on 1,000,000 acres. So, a number of the massive firms to know. So, contact your meals firm, become involved. And, you already know, now’s the time. You understand, as in basketball, it’s like video games up, the ball’s, you already know, being thrown up, what are we gonna do? Let’s regenerate and make a greater world.

Katie: I’ll hyperlink all these sources for you guys listening at wellnessmama.fm within the present notes. Yow will discover them and continue to learn. A bit of little bit of an unrelated query. However I all the time like to ask on the finish of interviews if there’s a ebook or quite a lot of books which have had a profound impression in your life, and in that case, what they’re and why.

John: I feel “The Ecology of Commerce” by Paul Hawken. Within the 1980s once I was an environmentalist, I made a decision to grow to be…mix environmentalism and enterprise, the corporate I based, Nutiva. So “The Ecology of Commerce” was nice. I feel “Mists of Avalon,” and “The Method of the Bizarre” have been two, sort of, legendary historic books about, you already know, my ancestories, the Celts, so these had impression on me as effectively.

Katie: Good. I’ll hyperlink these as effectively. John, thanks for all of the work you’re doing on this space. This was undoubtedly an enlightening episode. I discovered so much. And I hope that we will attain that important mass of 5 occasions the variety of individuals and begin reversing a few of these issues.

John: Sure, thanks. Thanks for taking me on as a visitor right now. And you retain up all the great work educating people and caring for your six youngsters and have them be regenerative warriors as they grew up as effectively.

Katie: Thanks. And thanks as all the time to all of you for listening and for sharing your most useful sources, your time, and your vitality with us right now. We’re so grateful that you simply did, and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you happen to’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or evaluation on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra individuals to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may benefit from the knowledge. I actually admire your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.



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